並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep121-%E5%8F%AA%E7%9C%8B%E4%B8%80%E9%96%93%E6%88%BF%E5%B0%B1%E4%B8%8B%E6%89%8B-%E5%A5%B3%E4%BA%BA40%E8%B3%BC%E5%B1%8B%E4%B8%8D%E5%AB%8C%E6%99%9A-%E8%B3%87%E6%B7%B1%E5%AA%92%E9%AB%94%E4%BA%BA%E7%8E%8B%E6%B7%BA%E7%A7%8B/id1540223415?i=1000611806181