並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-078-%E5%BF%AB%E9%BB%9E%E6%8B%AF%E6%95%91%E6%88%91-%E6%9B%96%E6%98%A7%E5%B0%8D%E8%B1%A1%E7%AA%81%E7%84%B6%E8%AE%8A%E5%86%B7%E6%B7%A1-%E6%80%8E%E9%BA%BC%E8%BE%A6/id1502072591?i=1000562190061