並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep14-%E7%81%AB%E8%8A%B1%E4%B8%80%E7%9E%AC%E9%96%93-%E8%AB%87%E6%84%9B%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E5%85%A9%E4%B8%89%E5%A4%A9-%E7%A9%A9%E5%AE%9A%E4%BA%A4%E5%BE%80%E7%9A%84%E5%AE%9A%E7%BE%A9%E6%98%AF/id1537540180?i=1000501734558