並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep41-%E6%B8%A3%E7%94%B7%E4%BF%A1%E7%AE%B1-%E5%A5%B3%E5%AD%A9-%E5%BF%AB%E6%94%BE%E4%B8%8B%E9%82%A3%E8%A9%B2%E6%AD%BB%E7%9A%84%E8%99%95%E5%A5%B3%E6%83%85%E7%AF%80/id1597309666?i=1000580407228