並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%B6%B5%E9%85%B8%E9%9B%BB%E6%B3%A2/ep03-%E6%B6%B5%E6%9F%B1%E7%B4%85%E7%A7%80%E6%9F%B1%E6%B6%B5%E7%9A%84%E9%98%B2%E5%AF%92%E7%B5%95%E6%8B%9B-%E9%85%B8%E4%B8%8A%E6%99%82%E5%B0%9A%E9%9B%9C%E8%AA%8C-%E6%A5%AD%E9%85%8D%E8%85%A6%E6%B4%9E%E6%BF%80%E7%9B%AA-YMPge1HLzsu/