並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%BD%E6%88%91%E8%AA%AA%E5%8A%87%E8%A9%B1/ep03-%E6%87%B8%E7%96%91%E9%BB%91%E8%89%B2%E5%96%9C%E5%8A%87%E5%87%BA%E8%BB%8C%E7%9A%84%E8%A9%B1%E5%B0%B1%E6%AD%BB%E5%AE%9A%E4%BA%86-%E5%A4%AB%E5%A6%BB%E5%A4%A7%E9%AC%A5%E6%B3%95%E9%8C%AF%E9%81%8E%E5%A4%AA%E5%8F%AF%E6%83%9C-ndPhJ0Smorl/