並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%A8%BA%E9%96%93%E8%A3%A1%E7%9A%84%E5%A5%B3%E4%BA%BA/s02ep10%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E5%8F%AF%E8%83%BD%E6%B3%A8%E5%AE%9A%E6%9C%89%E6%AE%B5%E6%99%82%E9%96%93%E6%9C%83%E6%98%AF%E5%96%AE%E8%BA%AB%E7%9A%84%E7%8B%80%E6%85%8B-zJYwAg2eERq/